Have a point of view..but don't try and Assassinate others

[PiF]

Mods..i wasn't sure if rant was the right place for this but I suspose what folllows will decide..please feel free to move it if you think it needs moving

opinions..every one has them and in aven we seem to be able to put them over without the usual forum ways of others..f*** you mother f***** for example

but this last week I have started to see another type of wrongness and I feel it needs nipping in the bud..quick smart

it seems for some..when they can't get others to agree with them or do as they are told some..even in recent days..have started to pull the ace card

not the ace..i am asexual card but the..this is where it stops because I will make a false accusation card

some examples

if you are over a certian age and have comments about the way aven goes around younger members some disagree with...you are ageist

if you are hetro and have opinions about the lgbt that some in there dislike...your homophobic

if you are hetro and have opinions about how sometimes the trans issues appear..on occasion..to dominate the site...then you are transphobic

if you are white and have opinions about politics and how race impacts within it..apparently you are racist

if you dare comment on aven becoming a more mental health based site than a asexual one...then you are uncarring and anti-mental health

and should you dare to have an opinion that dares to fall into any of the recently raised issues...then you will be reported

not because you have gone outside of the tos

not because you have made a personal attack

but because some who should not have entered into a debate feel they are not being listened to so if they feel insecure..thats your fault of course so you should be reported

aahh reported

some may know that at the bottom left of each post is a report button

this is meant to be used if someone breaks the tos...or if you have a concern that something is escalating or possibly to report a trol

IT IS NOT a button to be used because someone does not agree with you and you want them to do as you say or you will do your best to get others in the shit because they do not agree

and this is what has happened over the last seven days

some..unable to accept others have different opinions as strong as thiers..even when they have not gone outside the tos..have been abusing the report button..and even worse...inflicting false scurrilious, wrongfull and harmfull allegations on others

if you disagree with someone that much..say your piece..then leave it alone..it's very simple

accusing someone of being a racist,transphobic,homophobic, ageist, anti-mental healthist..is however not only against the tos but is the lowest of the low when done with nothing more than a dislike because others have a different view from you

when you start using these ..then you become oppressors..you stifle others views unless they comply with yours through no other reason other than ignorance,hate and the willingness to destroy others freedom of speech just because you feel only the others are wrong

if aven is now becoming that white older hetro asexuals are no longer allowed an opinion because thiers maybe different to yours ..then people..you have just committed a far worse case of biggotry than you could ever falsely accuse others of doing

this needs to stop

if you are unhappy with how others write, if you are unhappy that others have equally as strong views as you but in a different direction..then leave that post alone..to go in thier shouting racist, transphobe, homophobe etc..means you know they are not..you just want to falsely claim they are so you can win the argument you freely walked into

if aven is now being allowed to be hetrophobic, anti white, anti older, anti different opinion to you so get em banned..then we have bigger problems than the false accusations of a few

you cannot say aven is open to all then try and falsely eject others from it because they have different views to you

to do that..would make those false accusers some of the most biggotted members we have ever had

it needs to stop

[Display]

I completely agree with you that we can have an opinion without imposing it on others, but at the same time, I think it's everyone's responsibility. Minority or majority, no matter what your demographic or viewpoint, it's everyone's responsibility to be considerate in their speech and how they express their opinion, so that a debate can be had. It's also on everyone to take responsibility for their own words and to only hold others responsible for their own words.

Nika

[GirlInside]

I think what Pay it forward is talking about is that AVEN preaches tolerance, and yet, is very intolerant of any opinion that conflicts in any way with this philosophy. The rest of us have legitimate complaints about certain groups of people. In fact, it's not even just "the rest of us;" I'm transgender and I have complaints about trans people in general. But no, those of us who don't agree 100% with the tolerate-everything philosophy are made out to be evil.

[Ninny]

*stands and applauds*

[Tanwen]

I may not agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

[Larien]

I completely agree with you that we can have an opinion without imposing it on others, but at the same time, I think it's everyone's responsibility. Minority or majority, no matter what your demographic or viewpoint, it's everyone's responsibility to be considerate in their speech and how they express their opinion, so that a debate can be had. It's also on everyone to take responsibility for their own words and to only hold others responsible for their own words.

This.

Please, please keep in mind that this is just my general stance, and that I'm not referring to anyone in specific, because I don't have personal problems with anyone on here.

It's not so much that differing opinions are shunned (and if they are then they SHOULDN'T be, case closed), but it's more that the delivery of those opinions that can become a problem. If someone has a problem with a demographic into which I should fall, then that's completely alright with me - as long as they aren't being intentionally dense, whiny, or offensive about it. There's a significant difference between having an opinion and using it as a weapon against others. Live and let live.

[Oceania]

I feel like the other yadas may come here and swarm this thread. Maybe.

Anyways, I agree with you. I think that having said strong reactions to said opinions is more or less a result of the sheer opposite, wherein say an actual homophobic person has strong opinions and anyone who doesn't agree with them is called a "gay" or a "heretic" or some other term. This exists on both sides, and one side doesn't justify the other, but I feel like one side has more power (how many homophobes do you see in politics as compared to gay people in politics? Precisely my point) and that this imbalance has caused the other side to carry, so to speak, a bigger stick. It is a defensive mechanism, and while it's likely not justified here on AVEN, I would argue that it is (somewhat) in politics. Otherwise said groups (LGBT) will be oppressed. Oppressing their oppressors is the appropriate action.

It is not, however, appropriate here on AVEN. Opinions on AVEN have no real life power, except in the case where opinions are being used to abuse someone, which is also inappropriate. Accusing someone of being homophobic, transphobic, or any other (implied) derogatory term is invalid and has absolutely no place in said arguments. It classifies as an ad hominem attack (given the implications of said terms) and is therefore a argumentative fallacy.

It is sad also, that this is increasingly becoming a trend, not just here, but all over the world in politics. Well, how much I hate politics is going to keep me from making any further comments regarding the utter bullshit of it all it. But I do think that schools should be teaching people how to properly argue and have debates with one another, and more importantly, to be more open-minded and accepting of other's viewpoints, also changing our own when presented with the better viewpoint instead of being ignorant and keeping to our own.

That is all. Come of that what will.

[Tanwen]

I know I've said it before (so please forgive me for repeating myself) but I have learnt so much on here, I have had my prejudices challenged and destroyed by constructive and logical debate. That is the way to win your 'argument'

[Verp]

There is also the possibility that if members from several walks of life, people of several different ages, ethnicities, etc., old and new users, and people who would in other circumstances agree with you were it not for the way you present your ideas consistently get rubbed the wrong way by your posts, maybe you are simply failing at structuring non-hostile messages. If you keep setting off red flags in people's minds, perhaps there is something unnecessary that you are doing to make people misunderstand the meaning of your posts. If you're not a fire, you could try not to smoke so people don't try to hose you down.

Also, there's a possibility that you have gone against other people's interests without being able to present a convincing reason as to how they threaten your interests and how these interests of yours are comparable to them. Perhaps you are creating a clash of interests where one doesn't need to exist at all. Perhaps the underhanded methods people are willing to take against your interests reflect how desperate the situation is for the people whose interests oppose yours. If people don't mind looking bad in the eyes of others to protect what's theirs, perhaps they are just that much more starved than you are. Maybe you should bring a bigger army before waving a piece of meat in front of them or rethink your priorities. Yes, you might be getting what's considered rightfully yours, but maybe you're taking it from someone who needs it more than you do. It's something that all of us do daily without necessary realising it, so whatever helps you sleep at night is fine, I guess.

Just throwing it out there.

[prettyeyes]

There is also the possibility that if members from several walks of life, people of several different ages, ethnicities, etc., old and new users, and people who would in other circumstances agree with you were it not for the way you present your ideas consistently get rubbed the wrong way by your posts, maybe you are simply failing at structuring non-hostile messages. If you keep setting off red flags in people's minds, perhaps there is something unnecessary that you are doing to make people misunderstand the meaning of your posts. If you're not a fire, you could try not to smoke so people don't try to hose you down.

Erm, yeah, this. Most opinions that aren't blatantly offensive can be stated in a way that, while it may be disagreed with, don't put people on the defensive or make yourself look anything-ist/phobic.

[PiF]

verp..i notice you try and justify personal attacks by ignoring the obvious..i accept others may not be happy that some of us are allowed a strong personal view as they have

i can see the restrictions of opinions going ,,in favour of wrongfull personal attacks..shame..but it does go to show the direction that appears to be usetting a few

pretty eyes..without walking around in there there comfy slippers..it is always going to be difficult, honest and passionate without upsetting someone...you can't please all of the people all of the time

you can however have a pasionate debate without calling people homophobic,transphobis,ageist,racist and any other ic or ist you want to consider..just because thier opinion is different to yours..and secretly knowing they have never been any of those

my delivery upsets people..ignore it..it really is that simle isn't it? or is it becau se what i say has more support than some are comforteable with.

if you don't like my posts, bearing in mind they are a country mile within the tos..why read them?

i suspect some read them just because they want a row then blame everyone else except themselves

don't like my posts..ignore them..if you don't then I have to ask..why you do not

until then tough...if i don't like some others posts i either comment once and leave or don't go into it

[Henny]

There is also the possibility that if members from several walks of life, people of several different ages, ethnicities, etc., old and new users, and people who would in other circumstances agree with you were it not for the way you present your ideas consistently get rubbed the wrong way by your posts, maybe you are simply failing at structuring non-hostile messages. If you keep setting off red flags in people's minds, perhaps there is something unnecessary that you are doing to make people misunderstand the meaning of your posts. If you're not a fire, you could try not to smoke so people don't try to hose you down.

Also, there's a possibility that you have gone against other people's interests without being able to present a convincing reason as to how they threaten your interests and how these interests of yours are comparable to them. Perhaps you are creating a clash of interests where one doesn't need to exist at all. Perhaps the underhanded methods people are willing to take against your interests reflect how desperate the situation is for the people whose interests oppose yours. If people don't mind looking bad in the eyes of others to protect what's theirs, perhaps they are just that much more starved than you are. Maybe you should bring a bigger army before waving a piece of meat in front of them or rethink your priorities. Yes, you might be getting what's considered rightfully yours, but maybe you're taking it from someone who needs it more than you do. It's something that all of us do daily without necessary realising it, so whatever helps you sleep at night is fine, I guess.

Just throwing it out there.

[OFF-TOPIC]Not directed at you in particular, but I'm continually amazed by how prevalent metaphors are in language.[/OFF-TOPIC]

@PiF: I think it has perhaps more to do with the, er, clumsy way you present things than anything else. Let's see a few examples from threads you've started recently.

From "Is depression/mental illness a luxury of the western world?":

I've often wondered if stupid or simple people have depression?

take third world countries..they have real shit going on..life and death where is my next food coming from and why does my child die because we can't afford a 20 pence vaccine jab..not..i can't face my lectures blaahhh

but yet they plough through

so I wonder is depression mostly within people of a certian intelligence and or/both of a surroundings that tolerates depression and mental illness?

(emphasis mine)

I know it's Hot Box, but that was a really strange wording. In fact, I'm not sure I fully understand it yet. No wonder people reacted to it.

From "please can we have a teen section":

Although I am 100% sure i am not the only one thinking this ..this is my personal request

please please please can we have a teen section

the outpouring of fucking anime, otherkin, my dogs needs a hair cut, facebook says I am abnormal jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

i am not sure what age it would happen but 13 -25 seems to be where the most banal dross seems to be..and would cover most of the school/high school sections

"Banal dross"? For Pete's sake, there's absolutely, positively no way you could've worded that OP better?

[prettyeyes]

But do you really know if they are just throwing it out as an ad hominem and "secretly know" anything? You can't read people's minds. Some people are hyper-sensitive and honestly think that others are what they think they are even over the slightest and stupidest things (I.e., someone who insists anyone who uses the word "b***" is a hardcore misogynist, and yes I have come across people like this.). I don't agree with a person doing that and think that such behavior demands that they carefully reexamine the definitions of the words they throw out, but you can't look into their head and say what their motives are. But, honestly, if people are saying the same certain things about you that are untrue often enough that you feel the need to rant about it, you need to look at how you're coming across instead of insisting everyone else ignore it and shut up.

[Display]

There is also the possibility that if members from several walks of life, people of several different ages, ethnicities, etc., old and new users, and people who would in other circumstances agree with you were it not for the way you present your ideas consistently get rubbed the wrong way by your posts, maybe you are simply failing at structuring non-hostile messages. If you keep setting off red flags in people's minds, perhaps there is something unnecessary that you are doing to make people misunderstand the meaning of your posts. If you're not a fire, you could try not to smoke so people don't try to hose you down.

Good point. A lot of it is in the phrasing. If it's phrased in a hostile way, people will take offense.

Nika

[PiF]

pretty

would you change who you are?

verp..there were differerent ways i could have said banal dross..but it doesn't mean it wasn't

like i said before..people know i am blunt but still they go into my threads..reply to my posts..why is that?

but so far you've both managed to turn it around onto me and all about me..i can take this kind of personal attention and rarely complain about it

but it does highlight the point

some think they can directly attack others because they are different and try to have the samne rights as others..

[you*hear*but*do*you*listen]

There is also the possibility that if members from several walks of life, people of several different ages, ethnicities, etc., old and new users, and people who would in other circumstances agree with you were it not for the way you present your ideas consistently get rubbed the wrong way by your posts, maybe you are simply failing at structuring non-hostile messages. If you keep setting off red flags in people's minds, perhaps there is something unnecessary that you are doing to make people misunderstand the meaning of your posts. If you're not a fire, you could try not to smoke so people don't try to hose you down.

Also, there's a possibility that you have gone against other people's interests without being able to present a convincing reason as to how they threaten your interests and how these interests of yours are comparable to them. Perhaps you are creating a clash of interests where one doesn't need to exist at all. Perhaps the underhanded methods people are willing to take against your interests reflect how desperate the situation is for the people whose interests oppose yours. If people don't mind looking bad in the eyes of others to protect what's theirs, perhaps they are just that much more starved than you are. Maybe you should bring a bigger army before waving a piece of meat in front of them or rethink your priorities. Yes, you might be getting what's considered rightfully yours, but maybe you're taking it from someone who needs it more than you do. It's something that all of us do daily without necessary realising it, so whatever helps you sleep at night is fine, I guess.

Just throwing it out there.

[OFF-TOPIC]Not directed at you in particular, but I'm continually amazed by how prevalent metaphors are in language.[/OFF-TOPIC]

@PiF: I think it has perhaps more to do with the, er, clumsy way you present things than anything else. Let's see a few examples from threads you've started recently.

From "Is depression/mental illness a luxury of the western world?":

I've often wondered if stupid or simple people have depression?

take third world countries..they have real shit going on..life and death where is my next food coming from and why does my child die because we can't afford a 20 pence vaccine jab..not..i can't face my lectures blaahhh

but yet they plough through

so I wonder is depression mostly within people of a certian intelligence and or/both of a surroundings that tolerates depression and mental illness?

(emphasis mine)

I know it's Hot Box, but that was a really strange wording. In fact, I'm not sure I fully understand it yet. No wonder people reacted to it.

From "please can we have a teen section":

Although I am 100% sure i am not the only one thinking this ..this is my personal request

please please please can we have a teen section

the outpouring of fucking anime, otherkin, my dogs needs a hair cut, facebook says I am abnormal jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

i am not sure what age it would happen but 13 -25 seems to be where the most banal dross seems to be..and would cover most of the school/high school sections

"Banal dross"? For Pete's sake, there's absolutely, positively no way you could've worded that OP better?

THANK YOU.

There was a recent thread calling for a change in the Terms of Service because it seems to be so damn impossible to tell when people are acting prejudiced or not, so why bother saying in the ToS that we should try to report and/or ban bigots? While I wish we could follow the ToS, it seems like there are genuinely people who are directly insulting certain groups and claiming to just be expressing a controversial opinion or some such blather. Strongly implying that anything a teenaged asexual will type is "banal dross" is pretty damn ageist. Also I've seen many posters implying or saying outright that asexuals with mental health issues or asexuals that are on the autistic spectrum shouldn't do visibility work or talk about being asexual. And while I don't hang out in the gender fora myself, I'm good friends with one of the yadas IRL and this person has been very upset by some of the things that have been said about those who see gender as a spectrum. And maybe some of it is wording things in a way that can be misinterpreted, but learn to not imply that hardworking college students who have been abused and have chemical imbalances (raises hand) are somehow inferior to or inherently lazier than people who have access to fewer of Maslow's needs and you'll not be accused of ableism.

You know what, I'm done with all the fuckery on this site. If anybody wants to join an asexual site where bigots and/or those who post insensitive and bigoted things will be warned and then BANHAMMERED if necessary, PM me and I'll invite you to the forum I started.

[LoNeR bY dEfAuLt]

I agree that we should all be able to air our views without falsely being branded racists, homophobics, and so on.

I don't know what the exact procedure is on this forum if someone reports a post as offensive - I would presume that a moderator asks them if they would edit it? Or if it's really bad, it probably just gets removed?

The only reason I make the argument for a moderator asking someone to edit their own post is this - I, for example, suffer from mental health issues and sometimes for one reason or another my posts don't always come out so well. The wording may be bad, they may come over out of context, or they may even appear offensive when they aren't meant to be. It could be because I'm having an off-day in terms of concentrating (it happens) or perhaps that I'm having such dark thoughts (yes it happens too) that I hammer out whatever crawls from my brain without thinking about whether it could be misconstrued. If my attention was drawn to something like this by a Moderator, and I realised what I'd done, I would feel very bad indeed and immediately attempt to remedy the situation by editing the post myself.

[Verp]

if you don't like my posts, bearing in mind they are a country mile within the tos..why read them?

Because unlike with threads and forums with certain themes, there's no pre-existing feature about individual posts that tip off that they aren't to your liking, not when the reader doesn't already know you. Also, you're supposed to read what others have said before you contribute to a thread.

Really though Pif, whenever you say anything, some 50% of the time you say something that makes me go get the popcorn and other essential snacks you typically consume while enjoying a show. Not because I am hopeful of you in particular getting smack, but because I have developed a sensitivity for posts that are "asking for it". When you've become a source of entertainment to an Internet melodrama connoisseur, you should perhaps, I dunno... Think about your style a little.

Y'know, I'm guessing most of us have had to work on the way we present our opinions on the Internet at some point because they have come across as hateful or too provocative and it has done very little to our freedom of speech. I know I have, I used to be quite a pissant without even having any particularly radical ideas. Half of my time on Internet communities used to be drained by having to defend the way I debated with people and while I could stand my ground a lot of the time, it didn't really stand to any reason because I could've simply said things differently so I wouldn't have had to have those battles in the first place and still expressed the same opinions. I don't think I've ever expressed opinions more outrageous and unpopular than what leave my mouth, err, keyboard nowadays, yet I make less of a splash now because I have learned to read the atmosphere a little. Compared to my 14-year-old self, I write pre-emptively and with more precision so that even when I do say something to simply annoy people, the blame for the possible rise in hostility cannot be pinned entirely on me. When somebody calls you out on something like that, it's still usually possible to weasel out of the situation with an annoying, patronising apology without creating a significant backlash.

But sure, if you like throwing yourself out there, saying "What you see is what you get, deal with it or don't look!", go ahead... I'm here with the snacks.

[Herr Joseph von Löthing]

I agree that we should all be able to air our views without falsely being branded racists, homophobics, and so on.

I don't know what the exact procedure is on this forum if someone reports a post as offensive - I would presume that a moderator asks them if they would edit it? Or if it's really bad, it probably just gets removed?

The only reason I make the argument for a moderator asking someone to edit their own post is this - I, for example, suffer from mental health issues and sometimes for one reason or another my posts don't always come out so well. The wording may be bad, they may come over out of context, or they may even appear offensive when they aren't meant to be. It could be because I'm having an off-day in terms of concentrating (it happens) or perhaps that I'm having such dark thoughts (yes it happens too) that I hammer out whatever crawls from my brain without thinking about whether it could be misconstrued. If my attention was drawn to something like this by a Moderator, and I realised what I'd done, I would feel very bad indeed and immediately attempt to remedy the situation by editing the post myself.

If a post is reported it goes to the admins, who will pass it on to the relevant mods. (A mod may also read a post that requires moderation) They then decide if it needs editing, in which case the OP will get PM'd. If it's bad enough for a nudge/warn, a 24 vote will be started in our admod-only lair. A nudge is informal, usually a 'play nice', a warn goes on your account. 3 warns is a ban.

If we can see a post is worded badly enough that it's offensive, we'll usually PM the OP, so nothing to worry about :)

[virescence]

I think you're mischaracterising many people's viewpoints here. Essentially, you're suggesting that everyone who expresses the viewpoint that something you or another member of this forum has said is deliberately and maliciously making false accusations for no other reason than that they "can't get others to agree with them or do as they are told" and "feel they are not being listened to so if they feel insecure".

I know I've expressed opposition to some of your posts in the past few days and when I did so, it was because I genuinely felt that those posts were expressing ageist/ablist/etc viewpoints. I stand by that opinion. It doesn't necessarily mean that I thinkyou are any of those things, because I don't know you, and I know that even someone with the very best possible intentions can say things that are discriminatory or hurtful to one group or another simply by accident. That doesn't change the fact that I and many others found the things you said to be discriminatory and hurtful, and I for one will not sit there and ignore harmful, insulting or prejudiced comments against entire groups of people.

I know that other people who have expressed such opinions in similar situations were also of the belief that those posts were racist/transphobic/homophobic/etc and I applaud them for calling the posters out on it. What evidence do you have for calling these "false scurrilious, wrongfull and harmfull allegations"?

[prettyeyes]

pretty

would you change who you are?

A person can't change who they are, but they can choose whether or not to use words in a way that they can easily guess will piss people off (For example, the "banal dross" comment). That goes beyond blunt. No one cares if you don't find certain things interesting, and you could've easily said that. That's not the issue.

@ Verp. Agreed.

[PiF]

Because unlike with threads and forums with certain themes, there's no pre-existing feature about individual posts that tip off that they aren't to your liking, not when the reader doesn't already know you.

weird then verp that almost all the complaints have come from those that DO know me and DO know my style....weird

why do you think that is verp?

[Siggy]

I think we could learn a lot from how the queer community creates safe spaces. I've attended workshops to this effect.

Creating a safe space is a tough balance. You want everyone to feel comfortable and accepted, but you also want people to feel free to state their non-PC opinions. If, for instance, someone believes that bisexuals are all sexually promiscuous (a belief that persists even among gay people), they should feel free to say so. And then other people should feel free to correct them or disagree with them. And yes, people will get angry. Even when they shouldn't, they do. That's why it's important to exercise forgiveness. When you forgive someone for getting angry, or handling something the wrong way, it prevents all involved parties from feeling afraid to ever speak again.

Also note that people disagree on the "best" way to create a safe space. It's a topic that needs to be actively discussed, like we're doing right now.

On that note, I strongly disagree with you, Pay it Forward. Being able to call people out as ageist, homophobic, transphobic, or racist is important to creating a safe space. Even if the name-calling happens to be inaccurate! For instance, I don't think you're homophobic at all, PiF. I just think you're a very poor ally, and I say that with all due respect.

[Larien]

Because unlike with threads and forums with certain themes, there's no pre-existing feature about individual posts that tip off that they aren't to your liking, not when the reader doesn't already know you.

weird then verp that almost all the complaints have come from those that DO know me and DO know my style....weird

why do you think that is verp?

Clearly I am not Verp, but I'll respond since I really don't know you, PiF; I only remember the content of a handful of your posts that I've read, and I can offer an outside perspective.

By reading random threads and coming across some with your posts in them, we become more familiar with your style. It's the same with every member whose posts we each come across, and it's how we (at least initially) get to know one another.

That being said, you could say that everyone who is being offended by some of your posts, at least to some extent, "knows you and knows your style."

[/slight philosophical rant]

It's unfair to insinuate that a handful of people are purposely looking for your posts so they can pick a fight with you, or something. I'm sure those people have a plethora of other things to keep them busy. But maybe they're the ones calling you out on some of the things you say simply because those who don't know you quite so well don't feel as comfortable doing so.

[michaeld]

[speaking personally, NOT as a member of the PT]

and even worse...inflicting false scurrilious, wrongfull and harmfull allegations on others

Coming from someone who has shown absolutely no remorse for slinging round false and extremely dangerous allegations about other AVEN members condoning child porn (nor even a willingness to retract these allegations), complaints about "false, scurrilous, wrongful and harmful allegations on others" are pretty well laughable.

[ShahidAfridiBOOMBOOM]

I pretty much agree with the general message in the OP but think that it might have been taken a lot more seriously coming from someone else.

If we're now talking about PiF's post's specifically then I think he says what he feels with little sensitivity to others but sometimes makes a valid point that is lost/ignored because people are too focused on picking holes against his suspect writing style and lack of sensitivity in tone (not to say I always agree with him, far from it).

[WünderBâhr]

if you don't like my posts, bearing in mind they are a country mile within the tos..why read them?

i suspect some read them just because they want a row then blame everyone else except themselves

The "If you don't like what I say, then don't read them" mentality can work both ways. Just thought I would point out the obvious. Contrary to opinion, you can disagree with someone without intentionally fanning flames. You can't please everyone, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't qualify statements. If you want to be heard, you have to make an argument worth listening to--sorry, but that's just the way efficient communication works. If it is full of sharp pointy sticks, I doubt anyone will hear a word.

I can agree to some points, to a certain extent (as I can say for many of the posts in all of these threads). However, your delivery needs some work. It is everyone's responsibility not only to be held accountable for their own words, but also their perceptions. Just because you read something a certain way does not make the intent behind it exactly that. Hard to convey that in text, especially on the internet.

[Sojourner]

Most opinions that aren't blatantly offensive can be stated in a way that, while it may be disagreed with, don't put people on the defensive or make yourself look anything-ist/phobic.

Fully agreed.

my delivery upsets people..ignore it..it really is that simle isn't it? or is it becau se what i say has more support than some are comforteable with.

if you don't like my posts, bearing in mind they are a country mile within the tos..why read them?

i suspect some read them just because they want a row then blame everyone else except themselves

don't like my posts..ignore them..if you don't then I have to ask..why you do not

until then tough...if i don't like some others posts i either comment once and leave or don't go into it

like i said before..people know i am blunt but still they go into my threads..reply to my posts..why is that?

Many on AVEN, I think, or at least myself, are not the type to just turn a blind eye when we see a problem. E.g., IRL, if I see a person being harassed, I'm not just going to walk away because it's not my problem. I'm going to do something about it, and try to make the world a better place. Call me foolish or idealist, but that's the way I am.

That attitude is as valid online as IRL. If we see a post that states something incorrect or insulting, why should we turn a blind eye rather than stand up to the problem and try to make AVEN a better, safer place? To run away from it would almost make us as bad as the writer of the offensive post. Ignoring a negative, ignorant attitude is only going to allow it to fester. And no, that's directed specifically at you; I haven't read enough of your posts to claim such a thing. It's a general statement.

But, honestly, if people are saying the same certain things about you that are untrue often enough that you feel the need to rant about it, you need to look at how you're coming across instead of insisting everyone else ignore it and shut up.

Agreed again, Prettyeyes.

would you change who you are?

Never, and I don't think anyone here is asking that you change.

It's possible to be frank and non-PC without being blatantly insulting. If a person can't figure out how to do that, it's a problem with zer language and communication skills, not zer personality.

[ShahidAfridiBOOMBOOM]

If a person can't figure out how to do that, it's a problem with zer language and communication skills, not zer personality.

Were you being ironic?

[asexual cake]

If a person can't figure out how to do that, it's a problem with zer language and communication skills, not zer personality.

Were you being ironic?

How would this be irony?

Ze/zer/zhim are gender-neutral pronouns which have at least limited usage.