Stop dissing the sexuals

[Teagan KGB]

After some very anti-sexual statements from a lot of people lately, I've decided to make this post.

There are people on this board who are sexuals, and they are our allies. There seems to be a lot of anti-sexual sentiments lately, but it may be that some of the newer members are just relishing that they have a place where sex isn't pushed down their throats and just take it too far. But considering that my chosen life-partner and future husband, as well as many of my friends IRL are sexual and also very caring and wonderful people, this has been bothering me. I'm sure there are other members, sexual and asexual alike, who feel similarly. This is a board for acceptance, both for asexuals and sexuals.

I understand that there are some people who hate the thought of sex at all. But you have to remember that just because someone feels sexual attraction, or a "need" for sex, or anything else, does not mean they are the tools of the devil. This is almost as bad, if not worse than (presumably straight) Christians hating homosexuals for their orientation. It's bigotry. There are many of us who would not want sex ourselves but fully stand by our sexual friends, relatives and coworkers should they want to pursue sexual relationships, as long as the other person in that relationship is willing.

Many of the things said that have been anti-sexual, might simply be a misunderstanding (one of the users is not completely fluent in English) and others may not have been thought out as well as possible, but these remarks don't just sound angry and hurtful to our sexual members. It sounds hurtful to those of us who have close friends or have partners who are sexual. I know I'm just ranting now, but even if you feel like sexual society owes you, don't take it out on the wonderful people on this board. :(

[bligyn]

Repulsed Ace saying here! Here!

[Coleslaw]

Many of the things said that have been anti-sexual, might simply be a misunderstanding (one of the users is not completely fluent in English) and others may not have been thought out as well as possible, but these remarks don't just sound angry and hurtful to our sexual members. It sounds hurtful to those of us who have close friends or have partners who are sexual. I know I'm just ranting now, but even if you feel like sexual society owes you, don't take it out on the wonderful people on this board. :(

Emphasis mine, because, well. You said it better than I have ever been able to muster.

[Sally]

As an asexual who reads AVEN regularly (one might almost say compulsively and obsessively) and someone who knows ONLY sexuals in my life, which means that everyone I respect in RL is sexual --- I really don't think that there have been a lot of anti-sexual comments lately on AVEN. Where exactly have they been?

And not everyone on this board, sexual or asexual, is our ally. We are all individuals; we're not automatically divided into allies and non-allies. Our words/behavior determine that.

[sonofzeal]

I'm sonofzeal, and I approve of this message.

[Animated Crime]

Definitely not on people on this board. Sexuals who bother to come here at all are obviously interested in us Aces and are seeking to understand people who may seem totally alien to them.

They are extending their hands in acceptance of us, and we should do the same for them.

I have frustrations myself, and I must admit that I get a ripple of disturbance in my mind hearing that someone I admire or respect is sexual (I assume it intuitively, but it's still hard for me to actually hear it). I also don't like hearing the commonly broadcast malarkey about sex being required in order for one to be a healthy human being. But the truth is that sexuality is as fundamental to 99% of the population's identity as race or gender or religion.

Sexual people can't help it. It is an immutable characteristic they have. They also don't want to change - just as I would never want to wake up one day and be sexual.

So I agree with a-bi-sexual: don't discriminate. Not even if some sexuals are hard on us, or discriminate against us. We have to rise above it and turn our attention to those sexuals who care about us and love us. Because they're the ones who matter.

[GirlInside]

I think some people are oversensitive to anything the least bit antisexual. I must admit, I'm somewhat antisexual, but I have learned to "love the sinner and hate the sin." I don't think it's too antisexual to say that sex should only be for procreation, or barring that, should at least stay within marriage--after all, there are many sexuals who feel this way about sex.

Some of us are sick and tired of sex being in everything, of having sex crammed down our throats. The last thing we antisexual people need to hear is that our feelings are wrong on a board that should know better than to tell anyone their feelings are wrong.

Speaking for those who are antisexual, I say we deserve some respect too.

[Lady Longshadow]

An here I am, a sex positive ace. Does that make me an anomaly?

[prettyeyes]

As an asexual who reads AVEN regularly (one might almost say compulsively and obsessively) and someone who knows ONLY sexuals in my life, which means that everyone I respect in RL is sexual --- I really don't think that there have been a lot of anti-sexual comments lately on AVEN. Where exactly have they been?

And not everyone on this board, sexual or asexual, is our ally. We are all individuals; we're not automatically divided into allies and non-allies. Our words/behavior determine that.

This. Most of what I see is frustration at certain sexual behaviors that are not indicative of the entire group.

[Teagan KGB]

I must admit, I'm somewhat antisexual, but I have learned to "love the sinner and hate the sin."

I think this is an important difference. In the past few weeks, I've seen people basically that sex at all is sick and disgusting and wishes no one enjoyed it because, only a sicko or pervert would like it. You may not agree with having sex yourself, and may not even like the idea of other people doing it, but you at least accept it in some cases as you state below:

I don't think it's too antisexual to say that sex should only be for procreation, or barring that, should at least stay within marriage--after all, there are many sexuals who feel this way about sex.

It just seemed for a while that some of the newbies weren't thinking about how some of their comments come off. Some have even gone as far as saying that sexuals, just for being what they are, are sick or perverted.

[Typical Power]

It has been said before it will be said again.

This seems to come in waves. Not really sure why.

I was just about to make a post myself, as the antisexual attitude has been bothering me.

[Sally]

You keep making these claims but don't substantiate them. Your remarks could actually discourage some new visitors to AVEN because they think they're being accused as a group. I really haven't seen anyone claim that sexuals were sick or perverted. If you're upset about specific people saying specific things, you could PM them, or report the post to a moderator instead of making blanket accusations.

[prettyeyes]

I must admit, I'm somewhat antisexual, but I have learned to "love the sinner and hate the sin."

I think this is an important difference. In the past few weeks, I've seen people basically that sex at all is sick and disgusting and wishes no one enjoyed it because, only a sicko or pervert would like it. You may not agree with having sex yourself, and may not even like the idea of other people doing it, but you at least accept it in some cases as you state below:

Ohhh I get it more now. Yeah, I am with you on this. It's as dumb as saying that everyone who enjoys any particular activity is disgusting just because you don't like it. I think football looks like a rather gross activity due to all the sweaty people running into each other but I wouldn't take it away from anyone so long as they don't expect me to have anything to do with it.

[Siggy]

And of course, don't forget the Gray-A's and other people who are between sexual and asexual.

Some of us are sick and tired of sex being in everything, of having sex crammed down our throats. The last thing we antisexual people need to hear is that our feelings are wrong on a board that should know better than to tell anyone their feelings are wrong.

Antisexuality is not a feeling, it is an opinion. I think I am well within my rights to tell people that their opinions are wrong. Your opinion that sex should be reserved for procreation or marriage is wrong, not to mention heteronormative. There, I said it.

[Teagan KGB]

I apologize if it sounded like I was saying all new members are doing this, but I've noticed that so far it hasn't been any of the regulars who've been here a while.

The one who sticks out most in memory is Frozen Cherry, but I'm assuming it's that something gets lost between her mind to mine. I have trouble enough understanding what someone means to say when we speak each others' languages fluently and have non-verbal cues. When you throw in a written medium and her still perfecting her English, I could easily have taken something in a worse way than intended.

[Pamcakes]

I just get very frustrated when I come across sentiment that makes me feel 'othered'.

And no, in this particular case, I don't want to hear about how Aces are othered constantly, because I don't see how it's relevant. Being oppressed by a majority does not grant license to respond with ignorance and hostility to the minority of that group who recognise your validity and want to help alleviate your feelings of alienation.

To put it simply; I recognise that you feel like crap. That people who I share a single trait with have been instrumental in making you feel like crap. I am sorry that you have been made to feel like crap. I want to help you feel less like crap. It is not okay to respond, however, by saying things that will make me feel like crap, too.

P.

[Guest FrozenCherry]

If my statements are problem in this board then administator have to ban me out.

[Siggy]

I must admit, I'm somewhat antisexual, but I have learned to "love the sinner and hate the sin."

I think this is an important difference. In the past few weeks, I've seen people basically that sex at all is sick and disgusting and wishes no one enjoyed it because, only a sicko or pervert would like it. You may not agree with having sex yourself, and may not even like the idea of other people doing it, but you at least accept it in some cases as you state below:

"Love the sinner, hate the sin" is a common piece of Christian rhetoric applied to gays, atheists, and all other manner of folk that they don't like. Pretty much all of its victims agree that it is a way of feeling good about yourself without actually doing any good. Kindly get those words out of my face, or at the very least, stop praising them.

An here I am, a sex positive ace. Does that make me an anomaly?

No, it does not. Perhaps you would be interested in Apositive which is an alternative forum promoting a more sex-positive asexuality. Historically, Apositive was founded at a time when AVEN was particularly antisexual, but AVEN isn't as antisexual now.

[Pamcakes]

I must admit, I'm somewhat antisexual, but I have learned to "love the sinner and hate the sin."

I think this is an important difference. In the past few weeks, I've seen people basically that sex at all is sick and disgusting and wishes no one enjoyed it because, only a sicko or pervert would like it. You may not agree with having sex yourself, and may not even like the idea of other people doing it, but you at least accept it in some cases as you state below:

"Love the sinner, hate the sin" is a common piece of Christian rhetoric applied to gays, atheists, and all other manner of folk that they don't like. Pretty much all of its victims agree that it is a way of feeling good about yourself without actually doing any good. Kindly get those words out of my face, or at the very least, stop praising them.

Thankyou, Siggy. "Love the sinner, hate the sin" suggests that sex is an inherently evil act.

It's patronising and judgemental, and yeah, it gets my back right up for those reasons.

The only context I've ever heard it used in before was to refer to victims of the cycle of abuse who go on to abuse others, in which context is struck me as uniquely revolting. As if people should not be judged by how they interact with others! "Oh, it's okay, because I am not my faults! I may be beating my wife/molesting my son right now, but I am still a good person, because it's not me that's evil; it's my sin!"

There is literally no good context for it. Applied to a situation where evil is actually being done, it reeks of apologism. Applied to healthy, consenting adults having sexual relations with each other, it just seems offensively puritanical.

P.

[Miriel]

I just get very frustrated when I come across sentiment that makes me feel 'othered'.

And no, in this particular case, I don't want to hear about how Aces are othered constantly, because I don't see how it's relevant.

Yeah, how dare we not be super sensitive to the majority in one of the only spaces in the world that's actually ours.

[Pamcakes]

I just get very frustrated when I come across sentiment that makes me feel 'othered'.

And no, in this particular case, I don't want to hear about how Aces are othered constantly, because I don't see how it's relevant.

Yeah, how dare we not be super sensitive to the majority in one of the only spaces in the world that's actually ours.

See, that anger you feel? That anger you're expressing? That is not going to help you gain social recognition for your orientation from the wider community, and isn't that what we all want? Greater awareness of Asexuality, and widespread acceptance?

I see you are very new to this board. You are probably processing a lot of feelings right now, and just coming to an awareness of how different you are from the images of "normality" you're bombarded with everyday. I can understand how that would anger you. But I am not your enemy, and neither is Olivier, and neither is BunnyK, or any of the other Ace-sympathising Sexuals on this site.

No-one's asking for super-sensitivity. Just a departure from an 'us versus them' attitude, which is completely non-constructive.

P.

[Miriel]

I just get very frustrated when I come across sentiment that makes me feel 'othered'.

And no, in this particular case, I don't want to hear about how Aces are othered constantly, because I don't see how it's relevant.

Yeah, how dare we not be super sensitive to the majority in one of the only spaces in the world that's actually ours.

See, that anger you feel? That anger you're expressing? That is not going to help you gain social recognition from the wider community, and isn't that what we all want? Greater awareness, and widespread acceptance?

I don't really want your advice, thanks.

And so what if I'm a little angry? Are we not entitled to some anger? I didn't post a big screed about how sexual people are all gross. I made a one line post with no antisexual content -- is even that too much? We get screwed over, badly, in a lot of ways... and then we're supposed to come on here and tiptoe around the feelings of the sexual members? Yeah, it's a 101 site, but frankly, any sexuals outside of the allies forum should be willing to thicken their skins a little. If you don't want to deal with it, go, oh... anywhere else. Anywhere at all. Heck, go to the allies forum, where everyone will hug you and give you cake.

In fact, what really set me off was you complaining about being "othered" and then saying you don't care about how it happens to aces all the time. You have a mountain of privileges that most of us here don't. Complaining that your mountain isn't quite big enough -- and you don't care what it's like for us -- is seriously inconsiderate.

I see you are very new to this board. You are probably processing a lot of feelings right now, and just coming to an awareness of how different you are from the images of "normality" you're bombarded with everyday. I can understand how that would anger you. But I am not your enemy, and neither is Olivier, and neither is BunnyK, or any of the other Ace-sympathising Sexuals on this site.

You realize you're being very condescending, right? You know nothing about me and my history -- and you do, in fact, appear to be quite wrong in many of your assumptions. I'm new to posting on the board. I'm not new to asexuality, or the asexual community. (And as it so happens, I am opposed to the attitudes about sex I see from you, Olivier, and Bunny.)

[Pamcakes]

"In fact, what really set me off was you complaining about being "othered" and then saying you don't care about how it happens to aces all the time. You have a mountain of privileges that most of us here don't. Complaining that your mountain isn't quite big enough -- and you don't care what it's like for us -- is seriously inconsiderate."

You're right. On re-examination, I shouldn't have said that. I could try to defend it, but I won't. I never meant for a moment to make Asexual people feel their struggles were unimportant, but I see how that statement could, so I am sorry.

'I see you are very new to this board. You are probably processing a lot of feelings right now, and just coming to an awareness of how different you are from the images of "normality" you're bombarded with everyday. I can understand how that would anger you. But I am not your enemy, and neither is Olivier, and neither is BunnyK, or any of the other Ace-sympathising Sexuals on this site.'

"You realize you're being very condescending, right? You know nothing about me and my history -- and you do, in fact, appear to be quite wrong in many of your assumptions. I'm new to posting on the board. I'm not new to asexuality, or the asexual community. (And as it so happens, I am opposed to the attitudes about sex I see from you, Olivier, and Bunny.)"

I apologise if I came off as patronising; I was attempting to be empathetic, as opposed to getting narky at your attitude.

And you're perfectly welcome to be opposed to our perspective, if you like, but that still doesn't make us your enemies.

P.

[Teagan KGB]

Miriel, no one should be othered. Not asexuals, not sexuals, not transexuals, not people of different races or from different countries. But society isn't perfect. However, I personally don't care where we are, people should be treated as equals until they prove to be either worse or better. And unless Pan is trying to force you or someone else to have sex, I don't think her views on it hold any sway over what she's worth on this board.

So know what, I'm sorry I made this thread since it made Frozen Cherry feel bad when it was really a misunderstanding on my part. And I wish there was a shorter way to say it that didn't have such negative implications for others. Unfortunately at two in the morning is not the best time to think of how to phrase it or make any sense. Maybe someone should lock the thread? <_<

[jow]

So know what, I'm sorry I made this thread . And I wish there was a shorter way to say it that didn't have such negative implications for others. Unfortunately at two in the morning is not the best time to think of how to phrase it or make any sense. Maybe someone should lock the thread?

I think it needs to be said - it's often easier to say like 'sexuals think' or 'sexuals do' rather than 'some sexual people' or 'these particular people that I know'.

While we're on the subject of generalisations:

This is almost as bad, if not worse than (presumably straight) Christians hating homosexuals for their orientation.

Christians don't hate homosexuals - it goes against the principles of the religion. Of course some specific ones do - some hold placards outside funerals, and some Christians fight people of other denominations - but it definitely does NOT represent Christianity as a whole. As Christians we're not meant to PRACTICE homosexuality but we (as a generalisation =/)don't hate those that do x

[HMTQ - Madge]

I wouldn't say I've seen too many anti-sexual comments on this board, but in general I do agree. I may hate anything having to do with sex, but that doesn't mean you should hate people who do like sex and sexual things.

Some of the best friends I've ever had are sexual, so hearing anti-sexual comments is very troublesome to me. Hating sexuals for liking sex is being just as prejudiced as people who hate homosexuals because they like the opposite gender. It's like reverse homophobia in a way.

[PiF]

A lot of the ignorance around Avens policy against hating sexuals is from newer members

that said..unless your anal, a troll or just bored.. how many read the tos when they first join? not many I suspect

after a while and one or two corrections most of those then understand the site and the way it works and come round to the correct wording

i.e. at the beginning..fucking asexuals are nasty often changes into..I hate sex..i understand most don't but it repulses me

sometimes we jump on these things knowing that the incorrect terms..and lets be honest that seems to be were most newbies fail..too quickly where a quick reminder of the clarification can work wonder

the reason we why have an allies section is because quite simply they are..allies..sexual or not

the only time I see ..you see..you asexuals all all freaks is from trolls..rarely from sexuals who join in

so I don't think it's too much to ask we return the respect

[Guest FrozenCherry]

I apologize if it sounded like I was saying all new members are doing this, but I've noticed that so far it hasn't been any of the regulars who've been here a while.

The one who sticks out most in memory is Frozen Cherry, but I'm assuming it's that something gets lost between her mind to mine. I have trouble enough understanding what someone means to say when we speak each others' languages fluently and have non-verbal cues. When you throw in a written medium and her still perfecting her English, I could easily have taken something in a worse way than intended.

She (FrozenCherry) laughs in this moment so hard :lol: And no, she do not forgive.

[Emily - Coral]

I think some seemly anti-sexual comments maybe stem from a lack of understanding about sexuals, which I guess could cause "us and them" type statements rather than out and out anti-sexual comments.

Admittidly most sexual behaviour confuses me greatly (I'm a sex positive asexual as well) and I can imagine there are lots of asexuals in this boat too.

Though there probably are some out and out anti-sexual comments that go right over my head.

[Olivier]

(And as it so happens, I am opposed to the attitudes about sex I see from you, Olivier, and Bunny.)

Humour me, I'm curious...