[gingersquirrel]

I talked to my therapist for the first time about my Asexuality. I explained that this meant I had never had any sexual feelings or urges to intimacy between myself and someone else. I explained that I'd never had a relationship, never had anything, that I'd had no feelings at all. She then asked about when i was at school, and when I hit puberty. again i repeated myself - nothing, nada, zilch.

She said "I hear what you're saying, but I think probably there are some really deep-seated negative opinions about yourself behind this." Well, in one respect she's right. I have felt like a freak for being a 30 year old virgin. But did she think her comment was helpful??!!

Basically what she's saying is that I have psychological problems which interfere with my ability to relate to people. She said my social anxiety, which I experience in groups or at parties, means that I've never got past just meeting someone nice, and most people wouldn't experience any "feelings" the first time they meet someone.

I told her no-one has ever asked me out, and she said she wondered if I was giving out "vibes".

So now I'm wondering (worrying actually) what if I'm just a f**k up? If she's right, I'm just afraid of intimacy, then I'm being really lame.

My question is, if you;ve never experienced ANYTHING (like me) how can you be sure?

Or does it boil down to "Does it matter?!"

Now, everytime I watch a show and "normal" people are having "normal" realtionships, I fell really bizarre. Aren't there any Asexual role models to cheer me up??!

[Ily]

I do have deep-seated negative opinions of myself-- all depressed people do. But they didn't cause my asexuality. Your therapist seems to be connecting things that are not really connected. An honest mistake, I guess. You can be asexual AND have negative feelings about yourself, one doesn't invalidate the other. (And plenty of people with social anxiety are sexual.)

[kt8]

Yay, not experiencing anything! Granted, I'm not 30 yet, but I'm 18, and never been asked out, in a relationship, sexually attracted, or anything. I'd say that, if anything, it's your therapist who's messing you up.

I don't think it matters that you have trouble social situations - I'm relatively social, and yet, I've never been asked out either. I think I'm the only one of my friends who has yet to experience anything at all in that department. In fact, I went out dancing last night, and while my friends got hit on by guys, I danced alone and unhindered by creepy people. I dunno about "vibes", but I don't really care - I'd rather dance alone.

I know I don't have any negative opinions of myself... unless they're hidden under the thick layer of utter self-confidence?

I really don't like therapists. I think it's better to rely on your own knowledge of yourself, and a few good friends or family members. It's only when those fail that the therapist should be contacted, as a last resort. It seems to me that they just make things worse - if you don't see it as a problem, then why should they?? It's just stupid.

[SlightlyMetaphysical]

gingersquirrel, on Nov 1 2008, 09:03 PM, said:

Basically what she's saying is that I have psychological problems which interfere with my ability to relate to people. She said my social anxiety, which I experience in groups or at parties, means that I've never got past just meeting someone nice, and most people wouldn't experience any "feelings" the first time they meet someone.

So what she's saying is that you've never got to the point of meeting someone with any sexual or romantic intent, therefore you've turned your sex drive off and assumed you're asexual? It's probably true of some on this site. But, if you're honest with yourself, you know whether you don't have sexual attraction, or whether you just never have the chance to act on it. You can get close enough to characters in films and books, as well as your initial impressions of people and the nature of your fantasies, to know what your orientation is even if you never get to a stage where you can act on it (in this sense, it sort of boils down to the old: 'you can know you're straight, you can know you're gay, but you can't know you're asexual without trying it' fallacy).

[RandomDent]

Argue the opposite - people who dislike themselves mentally and physically so much that they have sex just to validate themselves as an attractive individual. Why aren't these people getting therapy to stop having sex?

[virginlikeartemis]

Quote

I told her no-one has ever asked me out, and she said she wondered if I was giving out "vibes".

I've wondered that about myself since high school. And that could be true - but I think it relates to asexuality, rather than there being something wrong. Knowing as I do that I don't want a sexual relationship, I'm afraid to let people get too close in case I actually develop feelings and then have to walk away.

Unfortunately there's not much you can do about something that's happening unconsciously. I'm trying to let things happen, que sera, while not stepping too far outside my comfort zone.

[kt8]

The other thing is, she's assuming that you want a relationship - I don't know if you do or not, but if you don't, then I don't see what the problem is in not having ever been close to a relationship, as it would just cause more problems anyway.

[mandrewliter]

From what I've heard from people on aven, therapists tend to be pretty hit or miss when it comes to asexuality. Some are totally fine with it. Others figure there must be something wrong with you. My guess is that part of the problem is that as a society, we've bought into this delusion called "sexual repression." (I don't believe in it.) If someone's interested in sex, it's because everybody is naturally interested in sex. If someone's not interested in sex, it's because they're naturally interested in sex but they're repressing it! For some reason, this is easier for some people to accept than the obvious reality that some people actually aren't interested. My guess is that being defensive about it will just make the therapist more convinced that your lack of interest in sex is really just denying/ignoring you're feelings. Maybe insisting that you're experiences should be accepted as valid, especially after you've already given a lot of thought to the matter, might work better. If a therapist insists on not accepting you as the authority on your own feelings, then it might be time to get a new therapist, but hopefully it won't come to that.

[AndyfromOz]

Edited.

[Sally]

She simply knows nothing about the existence of asexuality, and therefore she has to fall back on the only thing she can say: You're f--ked up. As others have said, you (and any or many of us) may be f--ked up, in various ways. However, we are also asexual, meaning we're not attracted sexually to other people. That has nothing to do with self-esteem, etc.etc.blahblahblah.

It's really a shame that therapists are causing people to feel worse, just because they don't have any knowledge of asexuality. But they did that for years with gay people also, when it was considered to be a pathological condition.

Remember that that happened: they were wrong about homosexuality; it's an orientation, not an disorder. Same with us.

[xeper]

A big point of contention of mine in the vampire community would probably apply here quite well:

The propensity to build your identity around your activity. Or in the case of asexuals, an aversion to activity.


In the vampire community, we adopted the vampire archetype as a group identity in order to give a name for a collection of common behaviours and inclinations. But while it is one thing to identify "with" an archetype, it is something else to identify "as" an archetype. Identifying "as" something creates a situation where you incorporate that belief into the foundation of your personal identity. And when you have people who come into the circle experimenting or questioning, and then build their identity around these activities, they create a sense of obligation to perpetuate the activities in order to preserve their sense of self-identity.

Time and time again I see people who go through motions because they desperately want to maintain their identity, their sense of community presence and involvement, etc, when perhaps they should have taken another path. This is most disturbing in people who try to justify their physical maladies on "being a vampire" when they probably would be best served by seeking medical assistance. It's almost a lost cause when the circumstance becomes self-perpetuating when the self-proclaimed spread their gospel to those who are also looking to "find themselves", but I try to put up the good argument against this manner of thinking when I can.


How this relates to this community is the suspicion that some of your perpetuate your own asexuality because you want to keep the trophy, and maintain the personal sense of identity "as" an asexual. To which I would say the same thing that I say in that other community, just be who you are. I myself am asexual, but I am in a great, long-term relationship because I decided to try it out. Does it make me any more or less asexual? Why would I even care about the answer to that? This isn't a competition. This is my life.

Life is about the experiences we have, so don't be afraid to take a chance now and then. Committing yourself to maintaining any status quo out of obligation to some concept of self-identity will only smother the real you. Which is not saying go against how you feel. Just don't go with how you felt in the past over the present, and always be willing to re-question yourself instead of relying on default answers. If that makes sense.

[Sally]

xeper, on Nov 1 2008, 04:37 PM, said:

The propensity to build your identity around your activity. Or in the case of asexuals, an aversion to activity....Time and time again I see people who go through motions because they desperately want to maintain their identity, their sense of community presence and involvement, etc, when perhaps they should have taken another path. How this relates to this community is the suspicion that some of your perpetuate your own asexuality because you want to keep the trophy, and maintain the personal sense of identity "as" an asexual. To which I would say the same thing that I say in that other community, just be who you are. I myself am an asexual, but I am in a great, long-term relationship because I decided to try it out. Life is about the experiences we have, so don't be afraid to take a chance now and then. Committing yourself to maintaining any status quo out of obligation to some concept of self-identity will only smother the real you. Which is not saying go against how you feel. If that makes sense.

I wonder if you realize that when you talk to people on AVEN, you're not just talking to young people. Many of us have lived lives for years attempting to be sexual, going through relationships, defining ourselves in our individual ways, and have only recently discovered that there is such a thing as asexuality. If that's the case, we've definitely "taken chances." I don't know what "trophy" you're talking about, because I can't see how being asexual--or any other orientation--would be a trophy.

You should read a little more on AVEN. There are all kinds of people here, of all experiences and ages, and I haven't noticed any trophy-flaunting yet. The only thing we have in common is asexuality, and some aren't really certain about that, and some are demi-sexual. We're not homogeneous.

[xeper]

I am fully aware of the diversity of this group. And I would still hold to my opinion that some people have made decisions not because of how they felt, because they wanted to preserve their sense of identity. Whether or not that is applicable to the OP or not is up to the OP to decide. Whether or not that is applicable to anyone who reads it or not is up to them to decide.

I don't prescribe judgment, I only offer a possible alternative perspective that might help some people become aware of their own interpersonal dynamic, and perhaps in that awareness, become empowered to let go of that identity obligation. Which in and of itself, does not mean changing who they are or what they belief or feel or think.

[Sally]

xeper, on Nov 1 2008, 04:58 PM, said:

And I would still hold to my opinion that some people have made decisions not because of how they felt, because they wanted to preserve their sense of identity. Which in and of itself, does not mean changing who they are or what they belief or feel or think.

I don't understand how you could come to such an opinion without knowing the people involved, and talking with them about how they've come to any decisions they've made. Your second sentence doesn't really make any sense when combined with the first.

The OP started this thread because of what her therapist had said to her, which was that how she felt about sex (or didn't feel about it) was probably/possibly due to some psychological difficulties she had. While that's possible, it isn't easy to hear, and the OP was seeking some reassurance that not all people who feel they are asexual are screwed up psychologically. Some posters offered her that reassurance. You really didn't address that situation, but instead issued your opinion on how "some" people had made decisions based on how they wanted to identify themselves rather than what they really felt. I didn't see anything in the OP's post that indicated she might be doing so, nor does it seem appropriate to admonish all of us to do a self-check whether we're doing so.

[oneofthesun]

gingersquirrel, on Nov 1 2008, 06:03 PM, said:

Basically what she's saying is that I have psychological problems which interfere with my ability to relate to people.

Over the years I've become twice as social as I used to be in it hasn't changed my asexuality at all.

The big question here is, do you want your therapist to dictate how you think of yourself? Do you think they know better than you do?

[Vandybot]

Therapists are "interesting". I'm not sure about mine. Heck! I'm not sure about any of them. I didn't specifically mention asexuality, but I recently mentioned my complete lack of desire/libido when we were discussing my current relationship (which I have been in for MANY months now). She of course did the usual: ask about meds I'm on (NONE), have I had my hormones checked? (YES, everything's fine). Then she asked if I was on birth control (no, not currently). "Well then, what are you doing for protection?" I told her "Umm...I'm not having sex". She seemed COMPLETELY shocked by this ("REALLY?? I would have thought given the fact that he's staying in your house when he visits. What about when you were at his place? Did the issue come up?" My answer: NO). The look of shock when I said we weren't having sex was amusing to me. However, it did make me clam up a bit. If she was this shocked that I wasn't having sex with my current boyfriend, I wasn't about to go into the fact that I'm a 26-year-old virgin. Being as it's VERY hard (almost impossible) for me to share my emotions (heck, i'm not really in touch with them...i can't even seem to put my feelings into words), this seems a not-so-helpful reaction. I think she should have been slightly more "tactful" in her response. Crazy therapists! lol

I've just learned that it's often best to not take their advice TOO seriously. Sure they sometimes can be very helpful, but sometimes not so much!

[xeper]

Sally, on Nov 1 2008, 05:08 PM, said:

I don't understand how you could come to such an opinion without knowing the people involved...

It would not be a generalized opinion then if I was directing it at specific people and circumstances.

[Shaggy]

Ily, on Nov 2 2008, 08:18 AM, said:

I do have deep-seated negative opinions of myself-- all depressed people do.

Absolutely and thankfully ... untrue.

My depression is due to "the State of the Planet" and the various behaviours of the dominant members of the dominant species!!

Ginger Squirrel, your therapist's opinion may be right or, as others have said, a product of Asexual Ignorance.

In general, I would be asking any "Health Professional" to detail what studies of Sexual types they have undertaken, (and what they know of AVEN) before judging the value of their professionalism or opinions.

You might get more benefit from a more knowledgeable therapist!

[santanico]

gingersquirrel, on Nov 1 2008, 06:03 PM, said:

and most people wouldn't experience any "feelings" the first time they meet someone.

As far as I know this applies for demiasexuals or demiromantics, but not for regular sexuals. It's hard to imagine that she doesn't know about asexuality but about demiasexuality.

gingersquirrel, on Nov 1 2008, 06:03 PM, said:

So now I'm wondering (worrying actually) what if I'm just a f**k up? If she's right, I'm just afraid of intimacy, then I'm being really lame.

Be very careful with thinking this. I thought this most of my life because I wasn't aware that I was as asexual and it destroyed my self-esteem.

oneofthesun, on Nov 1 2008, 10:34 PM, said:

Over the years I've become twice as social as I used to be in it hasn't changed my asexuality at all.

Same here. I have even become 10 times as social as in my youth and I even had sort of relationships but I'm still completely asexual.

AndyfromOz, on Nov 1 2008, 08:02 PM, said:

Don't worry about what your therapist said. I think therapists are PAID to find problems. This is a shame.

100% aggreed.

[SkribleRocket]

eh no
depression has nothing to do with it.
i mean i'm put of therapy, the ssri's are doing their job, and i'm still masochistic and asexual.
=)
they're not problems.
just out of the mainstream.

[Shrine Maiden]

gingersquirrel, on Nov 1 2008, 11:03 PM, said:

So now I'm wondering (worrying actually) what if I'm just a f**k up? If she's right, I'm just afraid of intimacy, then I'm being really lame.

Different people need different levels of intimacy. We're not factory-line-produced for pete's sake. Your level of comfort may require very minimum contact and if you're fine with that why should you change?

gingersquirrel, on Nov 1 2008, 11:03 PM, said:

My question is, if you;ve never experienced ANYTHING (like me) how can you be sure?

I've also never gotten piss-drunk but I know I wouldn't like that either. There's no need to explain yourself for things you don't want to do.

[metalgirl2045]

gingersquirrel, on Nov 1 2008, 09:03 PM, said:

My question is, if you;ve never experienced ANYTHING (like me) how can you be sure?

I think you're answered your own question. If you've never experienced a trace of desire for sexual activity then you're the definition of asexual.

[Sally]

The trouble with therapists is they have bought into the idea that they are experts. Thus, whatever they're asked, they feel they have to issue an opinion, even if they know nothing about what's being discussed (in this case, asexuality as an orientation).

If you seek the help of another therapist, it might be useful in your "trial" interview to ask the person what they know about asexuality. If they want information, that's a good sign. If they say they've never heard of it and [therefore] it doesn't exist, that's not the person for you.

[metalgirl2045]

I'd never thought of that problem before, I've never heard of therapists specialised in particular areas. For anything else you'd go to an expert in that particular branch of the particular field you were having issues with. For example, if you've got a problem with your hand, you'd go to a specialist in hands. If you have a problem with your skin, you'd see a dermatologist. If you're messed up in the head and you don't know why you're going to have to go to a psychological jack of all trades, and most likely master of none.

[Trix]

Aargh. Tell your therapist to go fly a kite. The only person who can tell you with authority what you are feeling is YOU. I hate it when you don't behave like them and then the first thing they run for is to figure out what MADE YOU be that way. They just do it to make themselves feel better - surely you would be like ME if there wasn't something wrong with you.

[santanico]

Sally, on Nov 2 2008, 04:20 PM, said:

If you seek the help of another therapist, it might be useful in your "trial" interview to ask the person what they know about asexuality. If they want information, that's a good sign. If they say they've never heard of it and [therefore] it doesn't exist, that's not the person for you.

I have one of my therapists convinced by giving her a hardcopy of the AVEN FAQ.

[wolfsfang]

I will only listen to the opinions of a therapist or sexual education person who has done an extensive psychological and biological study of asexuals and has come up with hard facts that support their theories.

I refuse to listen to anyone who thinks we can't exist just because it is "unnatural"

Actually what I would like to know is why most therapists seem to think that we are asexual because we were sexually abused as children or had some other traumatic event happen to us in our childhood that has turned us against sex. Does it never occur to these people that we don't like or want sex simply for the same reason that they do... it is just the way we are.

[xeper]

It's not the job of the therapist to believe you or judge you. It's the job of the therapist to help you to understand yourself and potentially overcome any personal obstacles. To which it would not be a fallacy to suspect that the circumstance of asexuality could be caused by psychological trauma. It is very likely that is true for a large number of people, and so any good therapist worth their weight should be willing to help an individual explore that possibility. If this is not true then it will come out through the course of therapy, so don't be so quick to judge your therapist for merely doing their job. The ones that agree with every little excuse you give them right off the bat have no business in that industry.

[je_suis_napoleon]

My therapist tried going down that road with me a couple of years ago. I gave it a lot of honest thought, which just ended up confirming for me that asexuality was a part of my makeup and not a learned behavior.

[Sally]

xeper, on Nov 3 2008, 11:07 AM, said:

The ones that agree with every little excuse you give them right off the bat have no business in that industry.

Excuse? No one needs an *excuse* for not wanting to have sex with someone, no matter what the reason. Nor does anyone need an excuse for feeling asexual, once they find that that condition/orientation matches what they've felt for some time.

Any therapist that tries to portray sincere feelings as an "excuse" has no business in that industry.